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Urban Harvest

Confronting climate change and poverty, a new crop of city farmers comes of age in Africa.
Guardian Environmental Network

Doug, I have wanted to write the same post as this for a good while….!

As an enthusiastic Catholic Christian AND environmentalist/scientist (yes, you can be both), I despair of bridging this chasm. E. O. Wilson in "the Creation" tried, in his own way, although I feel Francis Collins in "the Language of God" did a better job. I am a British-born American and can tell you that we here in the USA are quite unusual in our anti-science stand. The Scopes trial - so I learn from the marvelous program about it on the History Channel! - started off as a quite reasonable attempt by the ACLU, of all people, to prove that religion and science were NOT incompatible. Instead it ended up polarizing the nation and driving fundamentalist Christians to build their own institutions and schools so as to remain aloof from (as they saw it) godless science. Add to that a pretty poor level of scientific literacy and we are where we are.

However, in the United Kingdome, where Christians are an endangered species, there is the same cynicism on global warming. I don't really understand why, except for the aforementioned lack of good science teaching and the dearth of scientific heroes in the media.

So, what to do? Getting many Christians to accept the vast evidence for evolution is a quixotic battle, but I try, when I can! The evidence for global warming is hardly as substantial - how could it be? Evolution is as established a fact as gravity - but nonetheless, you are right, the opposition to it can appear mighty pig-headed. I think people do not want to believe it because - (a) heathen scientists talk about it and (b) it will mean a change in their lifestyle.

I hesitate to say which of these two obstacles is more difficult to overcome.

The claim of "scientific consensus" is, of course, a total & deliberate lie told only by totally dishonest eco-fascists. Or perhaps somebody can produce some evidence otherwise.

I would like to take issue with the idea that there ever was a "scientific consensus" on global warming.

I have asked journalists, politicians & alarmists now totalling in the 10s of thousands to name 2 prominent scientists, not funded by government or an alarmist lobby who have said that we are seeing a catastrophic degree of warming & none of them have yet been able to do so. I extend this same invitation here.

There is not & never was a genuine scientific consensus on this, though scientists seeking government funds have been understandably reluctant to speak. If there were anything approaching a consensus it with over 31,000 scientists having signed the Oregon petition saying it is bunk, it would be easy to find a similar number of independent scientists saying it was true, let alone 2. The whole thing depends on a very small number of people & a massive government publicity machine, both very well funded by the innocent taxpayer.

Neil, you talk about consensus, and then you quote a fake petition created on a farm in Oregon? full of fake names and proven to have tricked people into signing on the premise that this so called petition was endorsed by the US National Academy of Sciences.

After the petition appeared, the National Academy of Sciences said in a 1998 news release that "The NAS Council would like to make it clear that this petition has nothing to do with the National Academy of Sciences and that the manuscript was not published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences or in any other peer-reviewed journal."[15] It also said "The petition does not reflect the conclusions of expert reports of the Academy." The NAS further noted that its own prior published study had shown that "even given the considerable uncertainties in our knowledge of the relevant phenomena, greenhouse warming poses a potential threat sufficient to merit prompt responses. Investment in mitigation measures acts as insurance protection against the great uncertainties and the possibility of dramatic surprises."

so check you sources buddy. you talk about lies, yet you quote lies!

every scientific body on earth supports the science of global warming and they have all published official statements saying so.

that IS consensus. they ALL back the massive collection of evidence.

I'm amazed that you trust a hoax petition over the official statements of every scientific entity on earth.

Or do you think EVERY scientific report stating evidence about global warming is a lie?

One of the most simple, yet paramount things I ever learned from science, can be summed up in 4 words: Correlation doesn't guarantee causation. In other words, where is the proof that carbon dioxide is causing increased temperatures? I see slight temperature increases and I see increasing carbon dioxide levels (Correlation). Now an uneducated person might say, "Well that's easy, how could increased temperatures have any effect on carbon dioxide levels?"

What happens when you shake up a bottle of soda? Tiny bubbles form and race to the surface. And what are you doing when you shake a bottle? You're adding energy into the system causing an increase in collisions between all the atoms that make up the soda. This energy increase allows the gases to bubble out of suspension.

Similarly there are gases trapped in the oceans of the Earth. These gases (specifically CO2 in this example) are created from cellular respiration done by organisms living in the oceans. Now these gases dissipate into the atmosphere at some rate, slowly leaving the ocean waters. What happens when the system is given a good shake (the addition of energy)? When temperatures increase, the rate of collisions of atoms that make up the ocean is increased. Analogous to the soda example, gases evacuate (carbon dioxide is vented into the atmosphere) and voila! We now have a significant increase in carbon dioxide. It's quite simple. If only people would take a moment to analyze the relationship.

Some advice: Everyone has an agenda, especially those with power and influence. Follow the money and you'll find your answer. How much money has been made on the "Go Green" initiative? It's sad that most people can't connect these dots. People see their government taking interest in the environment and assume a positive change. If only.

Better yet, follow the politics. The whole world is uniting under this umbrella of faux science. In my opinion, this is the well thought out ground work for a new world order.

Be honest and think critically. And always question a politician.

Chris March 07, 2010, 12:37PM

You seem to be arguing that the increase in atmospheric CO2 levels in recent times has been caused by the warming of the oceans. That is not true. It has been caused by human emissions of CO2, primarily by the burning of fossil fuels.

The evidence from ice-cores shows that there was very little change in CO2 for several millennia before the industrial revolution – the graph is flat. See, for example:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Carbon_Dioxide_400kyr...

Thus ice-core evidence shows that CO2 levels have not changed by more than a few ppmv of CO2 for several thousand years prior to 1750, and had not increased by as much as 20ppmv above the 1750 level of 280ppmv (ie exceeded 300ppmv) for at least 800,000 years, even though there had been changes in temperature greater than those experienced recently during that time (for example during the Eemian interglacial). There is absolutely no reason to believe that CO2 levels should have suddenly shot upwards in recent times for any other reason than human action. Thus, from that reasoning, human activities can be safely said to account for all (or very nearly all) of the increase from 280ppmv in 1750 to 388ppmv now.

But, secondly, there is another way of understanding this claim:

If you wish to know if there has been any NET natural contribution to the increase in atmospheric CO2 levels, all you need to do is measure

1. the amount humans have ADDED to the atmosphere, and

2. the increase in CO2 in the atmosphere over the same period.

It is that simple.

The figures for the atmosphere from 1850-2000 are as follows:

1. Total human caused emissions of CO2: 441 billion tons CO2

2. Increase in atmospheric CO2: 174 billion tons

Thus, the amount of CO2 humans have added to the atmosphere greatly exceeds the observed increase in CO2 in the atmosphere so the human contribution is more than able to account for the entire increase (most of the CO2 emitted by humans has been absorbed into the oceans ie the process is the reverse of that which you suggest).

[Figures for CO2 can be found here:
http://cdiac.ornl.gov/faq.html]

1. You show people the photographs of the changes, as in Alaska, Yellowstone, Glacier, the Himalayas. The comparisons between the glaciers of 100 years ago compared to today is a start. Don't make arguments. Just show the photos. That gets past the verbal filters. 2. You need to realize that people do not make decisions based on rationality. Argument never changes a person's mind. They just become entrenched. Most people decide based on a. emotion, and b. what their peers say. Facts come after those. So that means, you must account always for emotion and peers. 3. A large chunk of the denial camp is upset because they feel that "ecofascists" are trying to manipulate or force them into losing their accustomed way of life (driving the huge SUVs etc.). Of course the ones feeding them their info are the corporate interests who do not want change. Even those who concede something is going on just say there have always been cycles of cooling and warming on the earth. And they are right. There was a time in the Pliocene for example when much of Montana looked like Death Valley. So, at least for a moment, don't argue about how much of the change is anthropogenic. Just say, whatever is causing this change, it IS changing and our current society as we know it cannot survive what is happening. So what can we do NOW.
Here is what I propose. Since pitting reason against faith is like tilting against the windmill, we can only make quixotic challenges. Here is one I propose for the Texas Board of Education. I was at an energy conference where I heard support for carbon tax from a previous bastion of unscientific thought - an unnamed and leading public university in the great state of Texas. Led by an able governor who I guess supports secession and creation we are close to become the energy capital of the world- that is the if state survives what is predicted to be a 120 degree average temperature in 2050 if greenhouse gas emissions are allowed to stay the course. Remember this is the state which produced Pappy Pass the Biscuit O'Daniel and produces some of the highest greenhouse gas emissions in the US. Trust the governor to lead the fight against the EPA. I guess faith has trumped reason because where can you find companies that need a geological and evolutionary history of millions of years for their product- oil, led by people who only remember the last 6000 years of that fact when they go to church. So here is my quixotic challenge. If creationism can be taught as an alternative theory why not a new theory of destructionism. Here is the syllabus 1. Al Gore’s – Inconvenient Truth - The Book and Slide Show 2. Armageddon the movie 3. Movies similar to Armageddon 4. End of the world and coming of the Messiah groups from all over the US and their messages 5. Any other nut case theories from the state of Texas